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History of the Peloponnesian War Thucydides M I Finley Rex Warner 9780140440393 Books

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History of the Peloponnesian War Thucydides M I Finley Rex Warner 9780140440393 Books

This is one of the early classic "histories" written. Of course, Herodotus had written his "History" before. But his acceptance of the role of gods in history renders Thucydides' hard-headed accounts of the Greek internecine warfare a further advance in historiography. Thus, we begin to experience something like a real history in this volume (and that does not denigrate the real contributions of Herodotus).

This is a nice volume. The Introduction by M. I. Finley sets the stage; the translation by Rex Warner is (as far as I can tell) serviceable. The work of Thucydides comes through in this collaboration.

Thucydides' focus is on the origins of this bloody inter-Greek war. The forces of Athens (and her allies) against Sparta (and her allies) is the center of this work. He notes the cause (page 49): "What made war inevitable was the growth of Athenian power and the fear which this caused in Sparta." This is, as noted earlier, a fairly hard-headed view of history. To use contemporary terms, the author was something like a "realist."

Some major parts of the work. . . . One of these is the funeral oration by Pericles, the Athenian leader. He spoke of what made Athens special. His death, according to Thucydides, was harmful to the Athenian cause. He says (page 163): "For Pericles had said that Athens would be victorious if she bided her time and took care of the navy, if she avoided trying to add to the empire during the course of the war, and if she did nothing to risk the safety of the city itself. But his successors did the exact opposite. . . ."

This work has much of interest in it. Just one example. The Melian dialogue featured a debate between the Melians and Athenians. The Melians argued that morality was on their side. The Athenians acknowledged the argument, but also noted that they had the numbers and the weapons. This is an early debate between two schools of thought in international relations--idealists versus realists. The hard-nosed attitude of the Athenians won out in this case. . . .

In some ways, Thucydides is best understood by reading Herodotus and then comparing the two, so that one can get a sense of one of the first historians and then someone who adopts a different posture as historian. This is a very good version of Thucydides (from someone who cannot read Greek, by the way). Well worth looking at if a person is interested in the devastating Peloponnesian War.


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History of the Peloponnesian War Thucydides M I Finley Rex Warner 9780140440393 Books Reviews

I absolutely loved the style in which the story is told, rather than making everything as brief as possible, Thucydides takes his time, he is as long-winded as they come and that's a good thing. Sometimes a multitude of words are needed to fully explain a situation, sometimes it's even best to look at things from more than 1 perspective, a crazy thought I know. Around the page 400-500 mark it really hit me, this is exactly what we need in the world today. I can only hope that other Greek classics are done in the same style, at the very least this book has me seeking them out. I can even say who fought in, who won, and what the basic sides were in the Peloponnesian War, not something I could have said before I picked up this book
The price is unbeatable but the translation is pretty rough. Many sentences had to be reread to just sort out the awkward phraseology. Thucydides is hard to translate because even in his time his writing was criticized for neologisms, very quirky metaphors and abstractions and odd turns of phrase. But this makes it all the more important to have a good translation. This one does used modern terminology that is sometimes jarring in the context of the era of the history, So Thucydides was not an easy read for his contemporaries and thus a "good translation" that reads easily also fails to convey the characteristic of the actual work itself. The translation by Warner perhaps comes as close to palatable and yet conveys the unique style that is Thucydides. As a work, it could be a 21st Century treatise. The parallels to current events are almost eerie from the "neocon" Alcibiades urging Athens to the Iraquian Syracuse war disaster to the oligarchy displacing the Athenian democracy.... the parallels are remarkable.
This is a difficult book to read and a difficult review to write. Both lie in the book's richness and the fact that many books, not only reviews, have been written about Thucidides' masterpiece. For example, there is an excellent (and most warmly recommended) article in Wikipedia. Can I add anything? Well, it is still worth a valiant try. A word of warning- before you embark on this reading adventure, get yourself a good detailed map of the contemporary Mediterrenean. It would be a great help to understand the various moves and identify the many actors of this 21-year power-play.
Thucidides has been labeled as the first scientific historian. His account is incredibly objective, even-handed , and non-partisan. He participated personally in the Peloponesian wars as a minor strategos (military leader or general) and was banished for not achieving what he was supposed to do. From that point on, he retired to his extensive family holdings in Tracia and gave all his time (presumably) to research the war and interview the witnesses. His account ends abruptly, probably due to his sudden death, and covers the first 21 years of the 27-year war. The best parts are the speeches of the leaders, generals and representatives of various countries or factions. Obviously, Thucidides had not been present on these occasions and considering the poor records available 2400 years ago, had no access to recordings or stenograms. Most are therefore hearsay, at best, or the authors conviction that what he related should have been said. Nevertheless, the speeches are a marvelous exmple of how human nature did not change one bit in more than two thousand years. The people we observe through Thusidides' words are intelligent, educated, ambitious, demagogues and true lovers of their countries, heroes and rogues, many times could be perceived by us as both good and bad, depending on circumstances. The squabling, cultured, even effeminate democratic Athenians prove to be exceedingly good at war and barely fail to subjugate the whole Peloponesian league led by the harsh warlike Spartans. For Thucidides, however, there are no moral judgements, only cold examination of circumstances. Even Alcybiades, a rare example of turncoat, double-dealer, demagogue and villain is not censured. Rather Thucidides raises his eyebrows questioningly at the naivete of the people who continued to believe and follow, nay even invite this man despite all the evidence available.
Only in one case, that of Cleon, Thucidides looses his admirable cool. Cleon, the cowardly demagogue and cheat who instigates a doomed military campaign and is forced to lead it by the more responsible Athenian general. Thucidides describes that campaign how Cleon hesitates, stumbles, always puts his worst foot forward, and then wins by an unbelivable fluke. His description of thea rguments presented by the Athenian envoys to the representatives of Melos precede Macchiavelli's "The Prince" by two thousand years. The Melians choose honor and love of their freedom. Their cause being right, they are consequently slaughtered and the women and children sold into slavery.
Do not omit his moving description of the Athenian plague. It is a rare gem!
And by all means, do read it!
This is one of the early classic "histories" written. Of course, Herodotus had written his "History" before. But his acceptance of the role of gods in history renders Thucydides' hard-headed accounts of the Greek internecine warfare a further advance in historiography. Thus, we begin to experience something like a real history in this volume (and that does not denigrate the real contributions of Herodotus).

This is a nice volume. The Introduction by M. I. Finley sets the stage; the translation by Rex Warner is (as far as I can tell) serviceable. The work of Thucydides comes through in this collaboration.

Thucydides' focus is on the origins of this bloody inter-Greek war. The forces of Athens (and her allies) against Sparta (and her allies) is the center of this work. He notes the cause (page 49) "What made war inevitable was the growth of Athenian power and the fear which this caused in Sparta." This is, as noted earlier, a fairly hard-headed view of history. To use contemporary terms, the author was something like a "realist."

Some major parts of the work. . . . One of these is the funeral oration by Pericles, the Athenian leader. He spoke of what made Athens special. His death, according to Thucydides, was harmful to the Athenian cause. He says (page 163) "For Pericles had said that Athens would be victorious if she bided her time and took care of the navy, if she avoided trying to add to the empire during the course of the war, and if she did nothing to risk the safety of the city itself. But his successors did the exact opposite. . . ."

This work has much of interest in it. Just one example. The Melian dialogue featured a debate between the Melians and Athenians. The Melians argued that morality was on their side. The Athenians acknowledged the argument, but also noted that they had the numbers and the weapons. This is an early debate between two schools of thought in international relations--idealists versus realists. The hard-nosed attitude of the Athenians won out in this case. . . .

In some ways, Thucydides is best understood by reading Herodotus and then comparing the two, so that one can get a sense of one of the first historians and then someone who adopts a different posture as historian. This is a very good version of Thucydides (from someone who cannot read Greek, by the way). Well worth looking at if a person is interested in the devastating Peloponnesian War.